June 27, 2022

Spirituality & Motherhood Episode 30: Motherhood & the Patriarchy

Spirituality & Motherhood Episode 30: Motherhood & the Patriarchy

In this episode, I chat with  Cecile Edwards of Mommy Evolve, about what precisely the Patriarchy is, and how we Mothers can unlearn the habits and beliefs rooted in it so we don't pass them on.   

I also come clean about what I have been into these days. Got a topic you'd like Spirituality and Motherhood to tackle? Find me at SpiritualityandMotherhoodpodcast.com and let me know. 

PS-- If you are interested in getting an astrological chart done for a child, I joyfully recommend Monique Ruffin of Moon Mama.

See you in Fall! 

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Motherhood and the Patriarchy: Cecile Edwards of Mommy Evolve 

[00:00:00] Jeannette: Peace innumerable blessings and welcome. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to the spirituality and motherhood podcast, where you reside in that sacred space where spirituality meets motherhood in this space. We'll explore everything from how ancestral and earth based spiritual practices, shape motherhood to how having spiritual gifts impacts your experience as a mother.

[00:00:21] I am Jeannette Jackson, your hostess. I'm a mother of two boys. A Hoodoo psychic medium, right? New title. Ooh, fancy, fancy, and a a tree talking lay herbalist. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. Let's get it started. Let's go. before we get too far, I kind of dropped off. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.

[00:00:47] it got me. This will be the last episode for the summer. I'm going through a divorce. Yay me. And it takes something to keep the ship right with two kids and keep flowing. It takes something. But, but, but, but, but there is a juicy conversation in the pipes that I'm very excited about and as inspired by a YouTube comment, I would like to talk more about the spiritual dynamic

[00:01:16] of narcissism. So that episode is coming because usually with this one, narcissist, there's like a whole family and there's some ancestral stuff asking to be worked out. So, um, I think my dead and I, and some other spirits around me are gonna work on that episode together and that'll probably be a short one and I also probably will try to interview somebody else's, um, who's dealt with narcissism and is a mother

[00:01:43] so, um, all is coming all is coming more, is coming more is coming. But, you know, I gotta take a little pause for the cause and things will probably change a little bit. So this episode, this one right here, which is like a C a chunka chunk is a very lightly edited version of the YouTube live. I shared with Cecil Edwards of mommy involved, this conversation, we chatted about patriarchy and motherhood .

[00:02:09] What grabbed me most in this conversation is having a little more clarity around the many ways in which patriarchy slips into how we raise our children. It was eye-opening inspiring and I hope it's nourishing to you and that you dig it right. Enjoy. I'll see you on the other side.


[00:02:35] Jeannette: Thank you for all the people who are joining us live, all the people who will join us. Not live. Thank you for being here and thank you for joining us with Cecile Edwards of mommy evolve, mommy evolve, empowers and assists, pregnant and postpartum mothers and practicing holistic self-care, intergenerational understanding healing and growth, a small taste and small now tastes of Cecile's offerings include group coaching to become a more mindful conscious parent, 

[00:03:07] , personalized wellness coaching for perinatal and postpartum moms, a mommy wellness circle, and guidance on how to read and interpret ancestral messages for healing and transformation, which is so important these days.

[00:03:23] Because we all have our ancestors beside us and we needed to understand what they saying to us. Cecile is also a maternal equity consultant for organizations and companies seeking to incorporate or offer holistic maternal care. If you want to learn more about Cecile, you can find her@mommyevolve.com or if you know you, you on Instagram, you want those people over on Instagram, you can find her mommy evolve on Instagram, and you can also schedule some time to connect with Cecile at link tree backslash evolving self, which I will put in the show notes so you can get into it.

[00:04:04] So for today's talk, we're going to talk about what the patriarchy is and how we as mothers can choose not to advance it. Right? Cause these, these, these little. Dudes aren't raising themselves out here and this, well, maybe they are, and that's the problem, but, you know, I don't think all of them are raising them themselves.

[00:04:25] So you ready? I was, 

[00:04:28] Cecile: I think I was born ready.

[00:04:37] yeah, no, that's um, thank you for that introduction and thank you for reaching out. And don't mind me fidgeting with my earring, um, for reaching out and, you know, us being able to conceive this and just put it into action. You know, I think it's the power of, um, working, um, collaboratively, which, um, I feel like that's something that, um, is, is critical to our sort of healing ourselves from the patriarchy too.

[00:05:06] But we'll get into that later. So, yeah, I'm happy to be here and to just be able to have this conversation to learn more from others. Right. Because I learned a lot too, from people interacting and asking questions and sharing your stories. That is also very powerful. So. 

[00:05:29] Jeannette: All right. So do you want to get the ball rolling by just talking about what exactly is the patriarchy?

[00:05:35] Cause it's a, it's a buzzword nowadays, but I don't think there's a lot of definition about what exactly is it? 

[00:05:43] Cecile: Yeah, I mean, I, you know, it took me back to my, I went to Douglas college, which is, was at the time it was the woman's college of Rutgers university. And anybody that knows New Jersey Rutgers is like the huge university in new Brunswick.

[00:05:58] And a lot of people didn't even know that, um, Douglas was a woman's college. Anyway, when we started, uh, when I started school there every, um, Person who enters has to take this class. And it's basically a class that teaches you about patriarchy and hedge money and suppression and all those. 

[00:06:19] Jeannette: That's what I'm talking about.

[00:06:21] Cecile: Yeah. Um, that lays sort of lays the foundation for what um, I feel like the founders of the, um, college wanted women to be able to think outside of the box, I guess you could say. And what were you raised in? And so it was, it was also always the difficult class, right? Because it was new, it was new, it was a new concept for a lot of us, um, to step into and to now have to navigate, um, thinking about, but anyway, that's what this question reminded me of when I was first looking at it..

[00:06:54] But in general, it's a system of government. Like if you go to the dictionary, it'll tell you that it's a system of society or government where the father or the eldest male is the head of the family. Um, and the descent of the family is traced through the male line. Okay. So, you know, when we're talking about systems, then, um, the systems that are ruled by what they say, uh, the side of the brain, that men rule, you know, function with the left side.

[00:07:22] Right. And so, um, that's one where, uh, you know, logic where, um, you know, building things, but building things, not, um, in a relation to the natural cycles, oftentimes, um, where the cycles that we function off of is based on a male, um, internal cycle. So we function basically, um, a woman's cycle is monthly. But we function on a deal, a 24 hour cycle, right?

[00:07:57] So you wake up this time, you do this this time, this is how supposed to be like that in the 24 hour period. But we know that women, we function based on the cycles of the moon and we are highly effected by it. I think that men are also affected by it to be quite honest with you. Um, I frankly, all of us are affected by each other cycles, but we have been sort of, um, groomed to function by the cycle of, um, the male body and mind.

[00:08:25] Right. Right. So basically in short. That's what patriarchy is, um, and matriarchy, you know, oftentimes people will say, oh, well, do people want to be run by a matriarchy? And they assume that it's the opposite, right? Where women, um, you're ruled by women. However, history tells us that actually, um, it has always been more balanced where women recognize or societies recognize that we all have these special, unique gifts.

[00:08:58] And, you know, we have to share power and we have to share, um, resources and things like that. And that someone's at some point in history, um, somebody decided that, you know, we wanted to have, uh, these absolute power mindsets, um, and ruling with brute force in control. And that is, um, In the literature anyway, the way that may make patriarchy is considered.

[00:09:26] And I didn't want to bring up the matriarchy conversation because I think that oftentimes, um, it's, it's an either or, you know, and it's like, you know, both masculine and feminine, um, traits and ideologies have their, their place. So 

[00:09:43] Jeannette: balance is nice. And ideally we fit together and support one another and it doesn't necessarily have to be either or cause everything is needed.

[00:09:54] Cecile: Exactly, exactly. I mean, that's the goal. However, we have to come to an understanding of ourselves and others. I mean, when you think about, um, some of the systems that have been created and, um, Rituals and routines that have been co-opted. So one of the main things that I'm thinking of in my head right now is the religion.

[00:10:21] That's the thing that came to my mind. You know, when we talk about historically, witch burning, for example, you know, which we think of, witch is, you know, some Gallogly woman in the forest contacting spells to turn everybody into frogs. When the truth of the matter is that, which literally translated means a wise woman.

[00:10:46] And these wise women were the ones who took care of pregnant. Women healed the sick, who knew the, you know, um, what the different plants in the forest and on the ground did how to take care of your body. Um, all of those things were what they, how to use different elements in the earth to heal. Um, humanity of any of its ailments.

[00:11:11] Um, we also very intuitive, so knew how to, um, determine, uh, what was going on with a person so that they can assist in healing, not just their physical, what their emotional, their mental and their spiritual. Um, and we're also keepers of, um, traditions and stories, family stories, and yes, in a matriarchy family was passed down or the family name was passed down through the woman.

[00:11:36] You know, her children would inherit her name and any of her holdings. Right. Cause that was another huge piece of, you know, patriarchy becoming huge was the taking over of the lands that were owned by and any of the holdings that were owned by women. And so, you know, you have to look at it from different angles.

[00:11:57] It's not just an ideology ideological thing. It is a thing of economics. It's a thing of spirituality. It's a thing of all of those, um, considerations, how people's, um, basic daily lives and minds were co-opted and, and shifted. So, yeah. 

[00:12:17] Jeannette: Yeah. Yeah. I I'm just sitting on this land and thinking about just spiritually, how, um, there were women here who kept a relationship with the land and kept things in balance and the sense of how villages grew and what, what lands were used for.

[00:12:35] I'm sorry, that's an interjection from the local spirits who are not happy. So anyway, let's get back. 

[00:12:40] Cecile: That's important. And that's something, I think that is rising up a lot because unfortunately and if you're stuck in the toxic patriarchal mindset, um, then because I have to make a distinction because there are men who are masculine, who understand that there's a balance, you know how, unfortunately though, we are being ruled by the toxic mindset where unfortunately we are destroying our life and like literally destroying it as if we have something else to go to.

[00:13:12] Right. So, um, you know, we have to be mindful of that. And I do feel like that is the spirits are rising up around that. Um, and calling for significant change. This is why you see a lot of people going back to. You know, wanting to farm live on the land, being conscientious about, you know, using too many products and having all this stuff, you know, um, all of those are the ways in which we are, you know, that's revolutionizing and, and creating a balance, right? Creating that balance. Yes. 

[00:13:51] Jeannette: Yes. That's a whole nother conversation. The connection between like patriarchy and capitalism and how we got where we are today from being disconnected from the land. But I should go, I should move on because it's very, juicy conversation '

[00:14:09] Cecile: cause in your parenting. Now. What's the main thing in parenting for a lot of parents, they want their children to be successful.

[00:14:17] Yes. And what is success? Success oftentimes it's having a lot of money and having certain jobs, um, certain, you know, he's ABCD, EFGs behind your name and all of these things. Um, but we see that the main crisis, in my opinion, and from my observation, the main crisis that many of us are experiencing is one of mental and emotional and spiritual health, right?

[00:14:41] Because people are not able to, to cope, um, or understand even that life is so much simpler than what it is that we have contrived in this, you know, matrix, matrix living. Um, and I, uh, from the conversations that I've been seeing in hearing, I feel like a lot of people are realizing and recognizing that and restoring themselves by getting rest and eating well.

[00:15:09] And, you know, Re-educating themselves and their children. Um, you know, pulling away from the mindsets, um, that have been keeping us in a choke hold, you know, around who we are, who make us feel bad about who we are just naturally, um, in order to allow us to submit to a different way of seeing things. And I think the conversation is definitely the same.

[00:15:39] I mean, looking at, I mean, I'm in America right now and looking at the way, you know, companies are price gouging for everything, 

[00:15:48] Jeannette: same here 

[00:15:50] Cecile: and it's, it's really, um, I think it makes people look at like, you know, who had reclaiming their power basically. Right? 

[00:16:01] Jeannette: Yeah. So, yes. So kind of to go back to rewind a little and flip the coin.

[00:16:07] As a mom, how do you know that you are raising and advancing the patriarchy? Like, can you elaborate more around like getting the ABCD, EFG behind the child's names and other things, other ways it looks to be raising the patriarchy? 

[00:16:24] Cecile: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, you can see it as you know, in the naming of, you know, I've seen couples where the woman took on or did not take on her husband's name.

[00:16:42] She kept her name situations where the husband took her name situations where both of them had both of their names, you know, all of those situations where people change their names all together, because they wanted to disconnect from the, um, Uh, the, the, the colonial mindset and, and the enslaved, um, past, um, and so there's different ways of doing things.

[00:17:10] I think that you wouldn't, it ha enhance or advanced the patriarchy when you don't feel like that's an option, you know, to do things like that. Um, you know, if your child comes to you or people say, cause I saw a whole conversation about this recently where it was like, the man took the woman's name and everybody's like, oh, he's this and that.

[00:17:28] And that, and this, and

[00:17:32] no, he's not any of those things. He's this just a personal choice. Now is that personal choice couched in empowerment or disempowerment, you can only know by having conversation with them or seeing what their point of view is, because I can't say that just because I changed my name, that I'm, I'm more, um, advanced or intellectually or woke.

[00:17:55] Or whatever, you know, all these terminologies. Um, I can't say that. Um, but some of the ways that we continue to advance the patriarchy is, is even in just the way that we look at the human system. Right? So we talked about, you know, understanding women, understanding their bodies. So growing up, you know, one of the things, you know, women were, are constantly judged for what their bodies look like.

[00:18:19] And that's one of the things that I, I had to, um, sort of protect and fight for my daughter because my daughter is, uh, you know, she, she has a body like her mother, right? I was, um, what people would consider, uh, you know, mature in my physical stance when I was her age as well.

[00:18:37] And you know, that was, it always felt very unsafe to have people constantly, um, commenting on your body. You know, I don't think people understand that when you know, you, they think that they're, they're making comments that are helpful, but really you're making someone. Feel, especially a young person.

[00:18:56] You're making them feel unsafe in their body. It's like, man, my body isn't good enough. It's not doing what it's supposed to. Oh, if I did what other people told me to do, then I would be better. It creates significant issues. And not just for women who are heavier, it's also for women who are skinny. And that's why, you know, I say, it's, it's a sham.

[00:19:16] It's a scam. Because at the end of the day, it's just people, um, exacting their own insecurities or their own limited view of humanity on to others. And so one of the things that we can absolutely do is to ensure that we teach our children to love their bodies, our girls, to love their bodies, but also teach boys to not comment on women's bodies in that way, and to see them that way, um, because it's unacceptable quite frankly.

[00:19:44] And the damage that you do to in those few instances is something that people spend their lifetime trying to bury themselves, dig themselves out of, I don't think people realize that, you know, I'm, I'm 40 years old and I'm still, you know, still have insecurities come up around my body. You know, even after I've done something as great as deliver a child, you know, it's like, I should absolutely love my body, but that's not an easy thing to do.

[00:20:16] When you form the majority of your life have heard, you know, that your body is insufficient or it could be better. You know, that doesn't just go to your body. It goes to everything about 

[00:20:28] Jeannette: your hair, your skin color, your eyes, what you wear and what you doing. It's never, ever, ever, ever, ever good enough.

[00:20:36] Cecile: Exactly. You're constantly looking at you. As a project to fix, as opposed to a, you know, whole being with the ability to create and to build and to do and to love and to be loved and all of those things. So, 

[00:20:53] Jeannette: and I just think even raising children with that mindset of like the child is not lovable or rights or okay.

[00:21:02] As they are, because they're not getting A's because they're not, you know, they're not the forward on the soccer team. They're they're on the bench. Like there's always, I, yeah, I see how it's like, just putting them in the box. It feels like boxing. 

[00:21:20] Cecile: Yes. That competitive nature. That competitive. That's the, that's the patriarchy that competitive ideology that's so deeply into.

[00:21:27] I think that humans are naturally competitive, to be honest with you, but it's not something where like, those who are going to compete are going to compete people who don't are not pushed to compete. You understand what I'm saying? Like, that's the difference there. Um, but I think that everybody is pushed into the ideology of competing in a patriarchal system.

[00:21:49] That's like, I don't have the desire to compete personally. I just don't maybe in Scrabble, but that's about it. 

[00:22:00] Jeannette: That's kind of fun competition though. Cause like it doesn't feel like everything is on the line. It's just like, am I going to spell this word correctly today? 

[00:22:10] Cecile: Right, exactly. It's a completely different thing.

[00:22:12] It's not for life and for resources. It's like everybody has the right to resources such as a decent home and water to drink. And you know what I'm saying? Um, the other thing about patriarchy too, a piece of it is accountability. You know, we, I think we get tricked a lot in the system. When, you know, we are in a situations where, uh, I'm going to take it back to the environmental piece.

[00:22:43] We're in situations where we, um, are doing things that are destructive to the environment, but we don't even realize it. Right. And then we go through this whole process of learning, oh, what we have done to the environment. Um, and it's sort of like, oh, well, you know, I didn't know. So, you know, whatever, whatever type thing.

[00:23:08] Yeah. And I mean, we've all been there, but at the same time, I feel like the system itself creates a situation where people lose their ability to be accountable to their lives and what they're creating around them. Right. Everybody can look at the politicians and say, oh, well, the politicians aren't giving us information.

[00:23:27] Aren't telling us and our dah, dah, whatever, whatever. But it's like, no, the power is always in the people. Yeah, I think that patriarchy definitely clouds that for a lot in a lot of ways. Um, because it clouds it in a lot of ways and it also creates smoke screens. One of the smoke screens are things like, um, for information, the way we get information, like your news smoke, screen, religion, the smoke screen, 

[00:23:59] Jeannette: big smoke screen 

[00:24:01] Cecile: degrees and thinking that, oh, I have this degree.

[00:24:04] And so therefore, therefore, nothing, you still have plenty to learn. So, and what you have learned, you probably need to unlearn the majority of it because it was inaccurate, but, or seen through the lens of, you know, some sociopath, a racist person. So, 

[00:24:26] Jeannette: oh, I'll never forget doing the master's in marketing. And like one of the first things, one of the first things.

[00:24:33] I learned in class. I don't remember which class it was. And they were, I think it was persuasion and influence was like, the whole point of marketing is to make you feel bad about yourself. There's something wrong, you got to fix it. And at that point I was in a master's course and the money was invested, but I knew I didn't want to do this because I couldn't, I couldn't find clever ways to make people need something yes.

[00:25:00] That they don't need. 

[00:25:02] Cecile: Right. 

[00:25:04] Jeannette: That hurt my heart. I felt like there were things, good things about that time in my life. But I just remember sometimes just sitting in class and being like, this is manipulation and I want none of this. 

[00:25:15] Cecile: And that is a, that is a hallmark of patriarchy manipulation. That is a hallmark of partriarchy, 

[00:25:22] Jeannette: but it makes me wonder how Patriarchy.

[00:25:24] This is not on the question list, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Cause we vibing and so how did patriarchy get to a space where it had to be manipulative, where it had to be kind of, if you like, --hmm, 

[00:25:36] Cecile: resist people resist and so you have to use tactics, right? So everything about marketing is certain colors bring up certain emotions.

[00:25:46] So it's not, um, uh, it's researched it's it's based on human nature. It just uses that human nature against, against you, you know? So you have to manipulate people. Otherwise they're going to be like, I don't want it. So, 

[00:26:04] Jeannette: so toxic masculinity, toxic patriarchy got to the place it did because the witches weren't falling for it.

[00:26:11] Nobody was falling for it. The peasants were uprising 

[00:26:14] Cecile: And through brute force. I mean, you know, that's a hallmark of patriarchy as well. They using strength and control to, um, To get people to submit, you know, all these wars years, you know, all these wars and all of these, um, killings and, you know, taking things by force.

[00:26:39] Yeah. 

[00:26:40] Jeannette: Yeah. That also makes me think of parenthood and how some of us have been raised that way. Some of us have been raised. We've had things taken from us that weren't given. We've had like our freedom crushed as children. We've had our minds crushed his children. And like, in some ways not realizing that we're kind of putting our children in the same box, right.

[00:27:04] Cecile: It's not trusting the spirit, the spirit of the person. You know, I think that that's where we are, you know, we're in the space. I know that's where I am in this space where I have to trust the, what my spirit is telling me. My soul is telling me is the best thing to do, you know, the best way to be. And that's what we really crushed in a patriarchal system so that people can conform and be, you know, give their energy to a particular thing that serves, you know, that end, whereas, and that end is a disruptive one.

[00:27:44] Oftentimes it's not one that is, I always say matriarchy to me and feminine principles are regenerative. So if it's something that can persist without the destruction, without wide-scale destruction, then to me, that is a, a, a feminine thing, right? So, I mean, you can build things like that, you know, that are systematic, that doesn't destroy.

[00:28:15] I mean, education is nothing wrong with education. It just doesn't have to be set up the way that it is, where people are taught in a way, in an absolute sense, taught inaccurate information and taught in very finite ways of thinking. 

[00:28:29] Jeannette: Yes. Yes. And it's, I mean, even as a mother and, and listening to you, describe patriarchy and as we continue through this conversation, it makes me even reflect of the ways that I as a mother have been very patriarchal in the ways that I'm taught to be patriarchal in the ways that I am almost supported in goading and putting children into little boxes rather than kind of being more liberated with them.

[00:28:57] But even within a patriarchal system, if you miss step it's like the freedom is gone for at least two generations. And you're going to have to start back over like it's it's it's yeah. Okay, 

[00:29:12] Cecile: It's a line to tow because, you know, on one hand, I always give this example of when I, and I'm likewise, you constantly unlearning constantly unwinding, right?

[00:29:22] Um, because I always say your journey of wellness is not about what you're learning, but what you're unlearning, you've been, we've got a lot of extra stuff going on in our mind. So, you know, one of the, um, things that I always talk about, or the example that I give is with my daughter in, you know, in the journey of having her love and appreciate herself and her body, um, you know, she, she wants to wear, you know, shorts that, you know, when I was growing up, it was like, no, you can't wear them short shorts type thing.

[00:29:56] And I mean, they're not crazy short, they're like mid thigh or whatever, but even that back then. That was like not, it was a no-no right. So, 

[00:30:07] Jeannette: you know, but I hit that knee,

[00:30:10] Cecile: Right, exactly you know, I, at some point I, I would say to her, you know, but I had to realize that it was my own upbringing and thought process that was creating that it, it didn't have anything to do. It's like, it's hot. I ain't gotta do it just hot outside. Um, and you know, but I did in order to find some kind of balance, one of the things that I did say to her is that it's to alert her to the realities that people are not going to be.

[00:30:46] Um, everybody's not going to be kind about the way that you're expressing yourself. They are not. And so you have to be aware of that, you know, and decide. How you're going to allow that to impact you, or if you're gonna allow that to impact you, because there is a responsibility that comes with being free, right?

[00:31:08] Jeannette: Right. 

[00:31:09] Cecile: There's a responsibility that comes with that. And there's always a responsibility and your responsibility, you know, in my view is going to be, you know, always to continue to liberate others through your thoughts and your actions and your words, um, as well as yourself, because if you just get upset and cause a rift, then that's not really useful.

[00:31:31] Right? No. So that's just something to be aware of. And I think that that's one of the ways that you create, uh, some, some level of balance to orient your child, to the reality of what it is. You know, if you decide that you want to be, you don't want to be a, um, a doctor like your family has said, so you have to be very clear that you're going to have to find other systems of support

[00:31:55] to get you through whatever it is that you want to do instead, you know, um, you're going to have to be very clear that you're going to have to limit your time and interaction with people who don't want to see your vision or have any interest in your interests or whatever the case may be. So it's not just all peaches and roses like, oh, I triumph when I did this.

[00:32:21] There's, there's the intermediate part of the emotional dealing with that emotional backlash within yourself and with other people. And so that is, um, a part of, of the process. Yes. 

[00:32:35] Jeannette: Yes. So do you have any suggestions for wellness practices and tools that can help moms unlearn and kind of get out of, get out of the patriarchal box with themselves in their children.

[00:32:51] Cecile: I think journaling is a very powerful thing. And if you don't like to write, you can also record yourself. There's a ton of apps that you could record yourself on just talking through what you experienced in a situation. Right? So if you find that you were struggling with your child on a particular issue, um, be it, um, something to do with the way they're dressing or the way they want to have their hair done, or any of those things.

[00:33:24] Um, I still get, get annoyed by the way, my daughter, my daughter be wearing them dag-gone crocs everywhere and it drives me nuts girl, but I'm like try another thing, some sneakers or something. I did finally get her to get a new pair of shoes this past weekend though. So I'm very proud of myself, but anyway, some nice sandals.

[00:33:46] Okay. So. Anyway, um, but journal and really go through your thought process. If you have a group that you can talk to, if you have, and be honest, honesty is the best policy. Like what did you really think you know about this situation and what came up and why did you think that way? Right? How did it make you feel?

[00:34:09] What was, what specific emotions came up for you? There's a, um, uh, a love seat called the wheel of emotions and it gives you words, right? Cause sometimes you think that you're mad, you're angry when you're really disappointed. Yes. Right. So being very clear about what it is that you're experiencing. Of course, having someone like myself as a coach is helpful.

[00:34:35] Having someone who was a therapist is helpful. Um, because we, we, you know, help you work through those mental constructs that really keep us all trapped. Um, so I would say, you know, creating a routine from that, you know, just journaling every day, um, with your experiences, um, in parenting is powerful. If you have girlfriends that you feel like you can talk to, or guy friends, I mean, you know, that you feel like you can talk to about what you're experiencing and you all talk about it.

[00:35:08] I think that that's having a mixture of all of those is probably the best thing. Right. But everybody has to start somewhere, but just creating a routine where you really reflect on your parenting and really think about, um, what your parenting mission is, what is your mission as a parent? Right. Right. We don't think about that.

[00:35:31] Right. Consider what it is. You may not know it now. But it can formulate and develop as you go along and you really reflect on your parenting experiences. So those are, that's one of the wellness tools. And that may not seem like it's a wellness tool, but it is because it helps you to release some emotional energy.

[00:35:50] Um, and it's not, it's not easy, right? Because your you'll have to constantly be, you'll have to find a different way of interacting that you have never interacted before. And so you're formulating, you're literally creating something new with your family, with yourself and with your children that is different.

[00:36:10] And it's going to take some trial and error because kids try you. I don't care what, where you, or what you try to do gentle parenting or whatever. They're going to try you because that's just their job. That's what it is. Sometimes it's, they're trying you sometimes you're, they're naturally, you know, inquisitive.

[00:36:30] Um, but sometimes they know exactly. They're trying to see how you respond to certain things. Okay. And that is absolutely a reality. I've been around many children. That is just what it is. Um, but that grows your wisdom as an adult and interacting with them when you can respond to them in ways that are, um, balanced.

[00:36:55] Um, but you have to find that balance in you, you can't react based on your own trigger, you know, which, you know, and it's, 

[00:37:04] Jeannette: which comes to the intergenerational healing part that you do in the sense of not passing down the same trauma and not passing down the same issues and concerns and instilling it in your children by constantly reacting from the same triggers that.

[00:37:21] Our parents have with us. And it also tied into the whole like accountability part you were talking about as accountability as the thing to undo the PA the patriarchy. If you're being accountable with yourself, if you're able to hold yourself responsible, I feel like children's smell that if you're willing to be responsible with your word and with yourself and kind of call yourself on the carpet, it opens up a whole new relationship because all of a sudden you're learning a lot while life with them gives them space to make mistakes.

[00:37:52] Cecile: Exactly. It's a conversation. It is not a. A, uh, knocked down, drag out 

[00:38:00] Jeannette: Submit to my will and wash your butt. 

[00:38:03] Cecile: That's the conversation. And so it's like, are you willing to have a conversation with your children? Are you willing to let go of this thought that, oh, I'm the adult. And so therefore I'm the all-knowing wise person and realize that you don't, you are not and be okay with that because your children are growing up in a different time, so similar issues, but they're processing it and seeing it differently than you perhaps were, or that you remember.

[00:38:27] Right. And so you have to be open to, to that. And I, you know, yeah. And of course, yes, you do still have some wisdom because there are plenty of things that I can see, you know, like some of my daughter's friends and I'm like, Hmm, no, that one is.

[00:38:47] Or, you know, and you just, you don't have to, you have to find ways to talk to them that make them feel like they're invested in the, the outcome and the decision. And they've made the decision. You know what I'm saying? And there's many ways that you can do that. It could just be, um, matter of fact, like I was watching this show and I saw this, these two people who were supposed to be friends and one of the girls was like a low key saying something to like, you got to make up the scenario, you gotta to become a storyteller and a conjurer in these streets.

[00:39:24] Okay. That's difficult for me cause I have a very direct personality, but I have to learn, you know, that my daughter works differently and that's a huge thing because oftentimes our children. It can be the opposite of how we work. And so we have to become very flexible in the way that we do things and we can't just be like, oh, this is the way I do things because your children remember it differently than what you do.

[00:39:52] Jeannette: Yes. And I mean, ideally divine feminine flows anyway. Exactly. We have it in us to do 

[00:40:00] Cecile: exactly. Exactly. 

[00:40:03] So I feel like we already touched on this with the wellness tools and the learning, but do you have any other suggestions for how mothers can unlearn ways in which, you know, um, we support the oppression of the patriarch in ourselves and each other.

[00:40:19] There are so many great resources and tools out there. So many great books about, um, conscious parenting and all of those things. And I'm not saying that all of everything in them are correct by the way, or we'll work for. You have to work. You have to find what works for you and just be open mentally to things being different.

[00:40:43] Honestly, if you want to really raise a liberated individual, you have to honor their thought processes, honor, their desires, understand their soul. I'm a huge fan of getting an astrological read up of your child. That's that's different. Um, but I did, you know, and that definitely helped me to understand my daughter better and understand how we function better together.

[00:41:11] I actually birthed my, what would could be considered my best friend. So that's, it's different. A little different. Yeah. Like we're literally like compatible, um, compatible even though on the outside, we're, we're different because she's very artsy. I'm very like logical, you know, but there's a balance for us to strike together.

[00:41:33] You know, But I would highly recommend getting an astrological reading and I can provide you with resources of people that I know who do that. Um, and you can share that below, but 

[00:41:45] Jeannette: please do. Yeah. 

[00:41:47] Cecile: So that's another tool is, well, there's plenty of things out there to read and I don't even want to give specific suggestions, but just, you know, put it in your mind that you want to find something that will work best for you and go ahead and, um, you know, something will come up that it won't be, be perfect for you.

[00:42:07] Okay. Um, you know, I, in terms of working on yourself as parents, you always have to be working on yourself. Right. And know that force is not cause a huge conversation that is often had is spanking, um, and beatings. Cause we always, oh, I was, I don't got my butt. My behind whipped when I was a kid and I'm okay! Are you Johnny?

[00:42:35] Are you Catherine? No, I don't think you are. 

[00:42:39] Jeannette: Nobody's okay 

[00:42:39] with it. Nobody's okay with it 

[00:42:43] Cecile: now, but you're right, because when you think about what a lot of people got spankings for, it was like just being inquisitive as it 

[00:42:52] Jeannette: It was wrong time when daddy had a bad day, mommy stressed out, let's not act like everybody was beaten.

[00:42:58] Everybody from a space of love and centeredness, it was not happening. 

[00:43:02] Cecile: Exactly. And I would venture to say, if there is love and centeredness, then you would find a different way. Right? 

[00:43:10] Jeannette: Right. 

[00:43:12] Cecile: I would venture to say that because I know I've probably slapt slapped up my daughter twice in her whole life. And each time I'm very clear that I was not happy.

[00:43:21] I was angry and reactive, you know? Um, but it was always in my consciousness that that was not something that I desired to do as a parent. As judges found it to be, first of all, it takes mad energy out of you as a parent. Like, nah, that's a lot. Um, but also it's like, what is the aim? What is the end? What end are you achieving here 

[00:43:44] seriously?

[00:43:44] Jeannette: Right. Cause it breaks trust. And the kid doesn't look at you the same way anymore. 

[00:43:51] Cecile: Yeah. Yep. Or they feel like, you know, if they do something wrong, there's some punishment that should come or something. If they make a mistake, there's some punishment that must come from it, you know? And it's like, no, if you're going along your normal life and just trying things and making mistake, that's one thing.

[00:44:10] Now, if you're doing some crap, that's intentional, you know, better than that's another conversation. Right.

[00:44:17] That can be a different conversation, but it really just depends on, on various scenarios. So I think that that is a conversation to be aware of and to have with your significant other, um, in your family, you know, in those, in those situations, um, 

[00:44:34] Jeannette: which goes into the next question, how do we navigate this work?

[00:44:38] When we have, we might find our partners, our families, our friends are not supportive and society's already a given like that's real, but how do you navigate dismantling the patriarchy as a mother? 

[00:44:57] Cecile: It's hard, honestly, it, it can take up a lot. You have to be very resolute in what it is that you know, that you-

[00:45:03] your parenting philosophy and what you want. Um, you know, if you know that, you know, speaking a certain way to your to your children, you know, I've had to protect my child from being spoken to in certain ways. And you know, her defending herself and me being like, well, she wasn't incorrect. You know, you shouldn't have said that to her just because she's a child.

[00:45:25] That doesn't mean that you have the right to say whatever you feel like you want to 

[00:45:30] say, okay, wait, wait, wait, I'm going to do this real quick because I've wanted to do this.

[00:45:39] that's a cute feature. 

[00:45:42] But like, I think he's something about like, not talking about your neck to children, my youngest son to you. And I'm like, well, he's, he's, he's, he's five, but he's got a point. Correct. 

[00:45:56] You know, bell hooks talks about, you know, how children are most the most under protected class. Yeah.

[00:46:03] Ever. And it's true when you think about it, you know, it was kinda like, we just do things to, to kids because they sh they can adapt. Right. And it's like, no, you know, I had it and I know I can, like, my daughter doesn't like going anywhere. I'm going places. And I'm like, all right, come on. Let's go. She's like, no, I want to stay in the house.

[00:46:25] And I just accepted, you know, she likes to wear her hair a certain way with mad colors in it. Eh, whatever. Like, you know, there's certain things that you just got to children are there. They know what they they're learning. And there are a lot of things that they know about themselves. Right. That you can't tell them that day.

[00:46:49] You know what I'm saying? Like they know that they don't like XYZ. Yeah. Maybe it's hard. I see them eating chicken nuggets every day because they tried chicken nuggets. And that's the only thing that they resonated with. Continue to try and continue to try different things with them. I remember I was working with a child and he, I mean, this is a little bit different because he was autistic, but you know, every day I would make, you know, have a little something different from what he was used to eating.

[00:47:17] And I would put it on his plate. Eventually he started to eat it. He was like, this 

[00:47:23] ain't bad, but that's because you respected his right to choose. And his, his autonomy as a human being. And I feel like patriarchy does that to us as adults. And then we pass that mantle down sometimes on the children and don't even realize that we're doing 

[00:47:42] it right in work.

[00:47:44] I've always been the type of person who I was like, I am not doing long commute to no job. Yeah. Right. Even when that was the norm, right. Everybody. Oh, I come you two hours. Ooh, that sounds tiring girl. Right. And I'd be like, I refuse if it ain't 30 minutes away, tops. I ain't going. And now everybody has gotten the taste because they work from home and I'm like, well, I've been doing that for awhile.

[00:48:12] So, you know, welcome to this side because it was, it's always been enjoyable. But 

[00:48:20] so this is off script. Like even the idea of COVID I feel like in some way COVID has helped bust up some stuff and break up some sort of masculine, oppressive structures and continues to, because it's like this rogue element that in some ways like the divine feminine courses, you to stand in yourself, even if you don't want to.

[00:48:47] Yeah. I mean, you didn't have any choice. You know, a lot of people were simply afraid, you know, um, companies had to shift and make adjustments, you know, governments farming, and some people will say that this is the backlash. Like now all these high prices is the backlash is there, but I don't think so. I think that it's just, it's the way for us to continue to find ways to make our society more equitable.

[00:49:21] Right. It's to see how these systems are really working so that we can find better ways to work around them or dismantled them, or, you know what I'm saying, build them differently or whatever, depending on, right. Whatever's actually going to be best for the majority of people or. Right. So, um, if that's possible, is it possible, you know, what is, is everybody that doesn't want to be rich?

[00:49:50] Everybody doesn't want to be, but everybody definitely wants decent housing, these water clothing, and to feel like food and to feel like they have their autonomy. That's for sure. I don't see many things in for sure. But that, to me, that's for sure, because even a homeless person is, you know, they got the side of the street.

[00:50:11] You feel me? So, you know, um, yeah, so that's, that's, I don't even know if I answered the question, but that's part of, 

[00:50:21] Jeannette: no, that was all. That was, it just made me think of COVID. I I've, I feel very blessed. And again, this is off the question sheet. I, I feel very blessed to be in France and be an immigrant because I get to talk to other immigrants who have a completely different worldview.

[00:50:36] Then then the French and then like even Americans and I have this lovely neighbor and we constantly talk about how, what the world needs is more collaboration and how, where she's from. If a neighbor needs to go get treatment for like, you know, whatever her medical procedure and they don't offer it in the country, neighborhood will pitch in.

[00:51:01] So you can go get your treatment and come back. They will like watch the kids. Everybody's got five on it. Cause we all love you. We want you, well, she was talking about her father's mango tree and everybody eating the mangoes and she's eating the mangoes and I'm like, this is, this is it like, this is how we're going to get through.

[00:51:22] And I just kind of wonder part of it's like, how do we get to this place? And I'm like, we have to be forced there cause I'm not quite sure everybody. Wants that, or even feels like that's real. But when I talk to other people, I'm like, this is real. Cause it's cause we talk about French society. We talk about the things we see and it's always kind of like, I don't know what's going to happen here, but this all seems like a bad idea.

[00:51:45] Nobody talks to anybody nobody's helping anybody. Nobody's, 

[00:51:51] Cecile: that's a hallmark of, of, of patriarchy as well. It's scarcity mindset because people don't do stuff like that because they have a scarcity and distrustful mindset about everything thing and everyone. Right. I think the system breeds that when you're constantly hearing about shortage here and this and that, and you know, this person stabbed this person in the back and you know, when that information is constantly in your consciousness, then you feel like you have to hoard things.

[00:52:23] I mean, look at the systems like. All the time they take from other places in horde, you know, it's, it's, it's one of the mindsets that are, that is critical to dismantle within yourself because I feel like all of us take that on. Um, especially, you know, if you grow up in poverty or you, you know what I'm saying, all of those things just become intrinsic entrenched in you and you really have to become clear and aware of it.

[00:52:54] And these are also all ways that you reclaim your wellness by the way. Right? So these are not separate. So some of the things that I'm talking about when you're talking about reclaiming your wellness, that this kind of mindset dismantling is a part of it. Um, and so in the, as I was saying early in, in matriarchal societies, people sharing, everybody was a hallmark of that, of those societies, right.

[00:53:23] Nobody would be stopping. You know, people are taken care of because I mean, if you're you have a farm full of, I mean, in this country, we throw away a lot of food and it's literally illegal to like rest for restaurants to, for example, give leftover foods, food to people why, you know, um, and then all this food shortage and all that.

[00:53:48] It's, it's, it's a hallmark of patriarchal thinking because it's couched in capitalism. And if I can't make profit from it, then people will take advantage of me, um, or take advantage of it. And it's, we see it all the time. We probably have the periods that we probably proliferated somebody. Cause I say all the time, I don't do nothing for free, but that's not how I run everything in my life because I definitely get away for sure.

[00:54:15] I definitely share with people for sure. When I feel like, you know, it's it's to be. Um, it's a tricky thing because some people are seeking to take advantage, but you have to, your level of clarity has to be there to 

[00:54:30] Jeannette: be to know, right. Which goes back to something you were saying earlier about parenting from a soul space and recognizing who you are and what your intentions are.

[00:54:39] And as a parent and as a mother, and kind of moving in negotiating with your child from that space, kind of just expanding it just to everything and practicing discernment around what you're giving, what you're receiving, what you're engaging in. 

[00:54:55] Cecile: Yeah. I mean, another way to practice better or more patriarchy, less parenting is to not watch television because a lot of things are reinforced in television and music.

[00:55:11] You know, I literally cannot listen to certain music at this point in my life. Like it gives me. Anxiety to even listen to, I'm like, oh my God, this is, you know, or watching certain television shows that reinforce certain behaviors or mine, you know, thought processes around people and things. I can't watch it.

[00:55:34] Can't watch it. So, 

[00:55:37] Jeannette: no. Okay. So one more question that kind of ties in, and then I'm a, let you go. Um, how have you supported and protected your daughter's freedom as she continues to grow up, 

[00:55:50] Cecile: that's allowing her to be herself and allowing her to be who she is, providing guidance and, and her observing how I do things.

[00:56:03] Right. So how I function with my friends, how I, you know, support things with my finances, how I do things, being an example, but also just allowing. Her to be, you know, when I think about my childhood, I don't, I wasn't allowed to just be I'm like I was, I've been working since I was like 12, you know, babysitting and all of that.

[00:56:27] And, you know, there was always this pressure to do, right. No support and just being, and I think, um, I hope that I'm giving her that structure of being, and developing her understanding of her soul's purpose and needs and desires so that she can be, you know, the best person that she can be, um, with her own thought process and mindset.

[00:56:54] But I also am very clear, you know, you have to also protect your children spiritually by praying over them and for them, um, you also have to protect them mentally, you know, by, by ensuring that certain things do not enter into their. Um, because people will try to say, oh, your child is this and that. And it's like, no, I don't, I don't play with those.

[00:57:16] The words that people use, like, um, over your children, like, oh, they're bad. Or they're this or that. I'm like, no, they're not, they're just figuring it out. So, um, those are ways to protect your children for sure. Um, and again, it always comes back to, you have to protect yourself off in that way, too. Right?

[00:57:37] It's easier for you to protect them when you can protect yourself in that way, or it's confusing to them. If you're not protecting yourself in that way. You know, if your mom, if your child sees you, for example, in an abusive relationship, but you're, you know, trying to teach them about relationships, which what do you think is going to land?

[00:57:57] You know, most times what's going to land more is what they see. That's what I said. The example is important. Um, So, yeah, those are different ways, but you know, also I do Reiki. So if you're interested in getting Reiki done for yourself, for your child, um, then you can certainly visit my link tree and sign up there, or to get a consultation or coaching.

[00:58:27] You can do that as well. Yeah. 

[00:58:31] Jeannette: So socio thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom. Thank you for all watching and listening wherever, whenever you get here, wherever you are. And I look forward to seeing all y'all next Tuesday for our next conversation around Ramiro, finding the bravery and create to create a life that works for you and your family, which kind of.

[00:59:01] And kind of like, you know, comes into this as well. It fits 

[00:59:04] Cecile: nicely. It does. It really does because, um, um, to, to, to say the last thing, a huge thing that patriarchy suppresses in a lot of us is our spirituality and our ability to envision, okay. Our vision is the most powerful thing that we have, but imagine we're constantly watching television.

[00:59:28] We have vision in our mind based on the fears of other people or the, the inadequacies of other people, you know? So our vision has been significantly co-opted. So we can't even conceive and imagine. A different life. Um, and what is actually for us, because I believe that what comes up in our vision is what is actually forced.

[00:59:49] So somebody asked me one time, well, why do you want to be rich? And I was like, you know what? It wasn't something that I just woke up and said, I woke up and said, because I saw somebody else do it. It's just been something that I've always sensed in my spirit. You know what I'm saying? And like, I don't, if that wasn't my walk in life, then I don't believe them.

[01:00:07] That's what I want to be content with just being, you know, doing whatever. And that's cool too, if that's what it is, that is your walk. Um, so, you know, I think that that's part of the conversation that we'll certainly have you have to, because I can say that everything that I've envisioned, if it was, for me, it stayed.

[01:00:25] If it was not, it did not. And oftentimes I might have envisioned things that were not for me because of. Conceptualization based on the society that we're in. 

[01:00:39] Jeannette: Right. And the need to protect your vision and also discern sometimes you can't share it with other people because it's not for them and they can't 

[01:00:52] Cecile: it.

[01:00:53] Yeah. You have to be discerning with that for sure. Because, um, it just doesn't, it really doesn't serve you to really tell people who are just going to always have something negative to say. Like, I, I had to realize that I had, and I'm very careful to not even be around people who I don't feel like I can talk about my vision, because what's the point, like if you're afraid of somebody whose vision, and you're not the type of person that I need to be around, if 

[01:01:22] Jeannette: you're offended, hurt, and you want to get aggressive.

[01:01:24] Cause I said, I want to grow tomatoes. There's a problem.

[01:01:30] Cecile: And that shows you that they themselves don't really have a vision that is for them. Right. Because oftentimes this is the quote unquote versus the visions that people have issues with. It's not, you know, if you said something that's commonplace that they were interested in, they ain't gonna find nothing wrong with it.

[01:01:49] So anyway, 

[01:01:52] Jeannette: chop it up next week. 

[01:01:55] Cecile: We'll get into it. We're going to get into it. All 

[01:02:00] Jeannette: right. Well, y'all stay blessed. I look forward to seeing you next week. 

[01:02:04] Cecile: All right. Y'all thank you

[01:02:06] Jeannette: We went from soup to nuts on that one. And it was a mouthful and we could have gone on, but I had to go to bed I had to go to bed. I like sleep. Y'all I do. I love my sleep, but thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for, for listening again, I'm gonna be on hiatus. This is the last one for a little bit, probably till September-ish, but in the meanwhile, if you got something on spirituality and motherhood, you'd like me to talk about, get at me at spiritualityandmotherhoodpodcast.com.

[01:02:40] Also, you can find me over on Twitter at JLancien - L -A- N- C- I- E- N 77. Talking a mess. Telling too much my business . So I look forward to having something juicy again for you soon. Thank you so much for being here. Stay blessed. Peace.